Unlock Your Leadership Potential

In this episode of the Business Pulse podcast, Candice Jarrett (co-founder of XKOVA) interviews leadership coach Alexsandra Guerra (founder of Calming Chaos) who shares her insights on effective leadership, the importance of self-awareness, and the transformative power of the Conscious Leadership Framework. Alexsandra discusses her journey from climate tech to leadership coaching, emphasizing the role of safe spaces in fostering open communication. The conversation also touches on managing stress, the significance of taking breaks, and the traits that define effective leaders.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Leadership Coaching
• 4:34 The Conscious Leadership Framework
• 9:53 Identifying Client Needs
• 13:40 Self-Sabotage in Leadership
• 17:23 The Importance of Safe Spaces in Leadership
• 20:37 The Importance of Coaching and Support
• 21:43 Managing Stress and Taking Breaks
• 24:09 Leadership and Ego
• 28:15 Boundaries in Leadership
• 30:59 Communicating Boundaries Effectively
• 36:37 Co-Creating with the Universe

Transcript

Candice Jarrett (00:00)
Welcome to the Business Pulse podcast. My name is Candice Jarrett. Today we will be talking to Alexsandra Guerra, who founded her own leadership coaching company, Calming Chaos. She believes that effective leadership requires taking radical responsibility for one's life. We'll talk about that today and more in episode six.

Candice Jarrett (00:41)
Alexandra, thank you so much for joining me today.

Alexsandra (00:43)
I'm happy to be here.

Candice Jarrett (00:45)
So I want to give the audience a little bit of a background. This isn't like one of the things that I had pre-prepared, but just kind of off the cuff is we actually met once before because you had come in and done a presentation with a startup incubator that I'm in. And I just, loved your presentation so much. had to reach out to you and be like, please come on the show. So appreciate you being here today. So can you talk a little bit about what leadership coaching is and why you were inspired to get into it?

Alexsandra (00:49)
sure.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

thanks. Wonderful question. Thank you for asking. so yeah, it's funny because my family, they asked me, what are you doing now? I say, we leadership coaching. They're like, what is that? Like question marks all around their heads and confusion. so my background, I started a climate tech startup, in 2017. So for seven years, almost seven years was growing and scaling this business. And I think it was around our pre-seed round that my co-founder Paul.

have gotten a coach for he and I. Because we, know, there's a lot of skill that goes into leadership that is not, it's not innate. You were not born a leader. Yeah. And also like leaders aren't what people typically think like, if you're charismatic and extroverted then you're a leader. No, there are lots of introverted leaders as well. So leadership is a skillset that can be learned and can be taught. So we had a coach then and then I,

We took some time off and I went to a different coach a couple years later from the Conscious Leadership Group because we really liked that framework. I gotta be honest, it was immensely transformative. Like having a leadership coach, especially from the Conscious Leadership Framework, it made me see the world in a completely different way. I had also already started like a spiritual journey for myself in 2019 because I was burnt out to the max. had lost.

my uncle who was like a father to me, like Nori, my climate tech startup was all I had ever really focused on in my career for all of my young adult life. so I found that there wasn't a lot of joy in my life, except for my nephew, Noah, who was only like two at the time. And he lived across the country at home in Miami and I was in Seattle at the time. So when the, when we started doing coaching with the conscious leadership group and my, my coach Jim at the time.

Jim got me to recognize that the narratives and little things that I was saying was I was just playing a little victim. Like, like that guy's a villain. He's so mean to me. And he challenged me in the most lovingly firm way. I was like, no, they're your allies and cut the crap. And I got to be honest, that is the most helpful thing that anyone's ever done for me. And I loved working with him and through my time at the

growing the business, I just always gravitated towards the people side and the organization. How are people doing? My co-founder Paul always described me as the, I don't know if you're familiar with Star Trek Next Generation, with Jean-Luc Picard. Yeah, yeah, and I can't remember her name, but Councilor Troy? Yeah, Councilor Troy. He would always describe me as Councilor Troy. I was like, how are you? What's going on? So.

Candice Jarrett (03:42)
That's Deanna Troy.

Alexsandra (03:48)
That's how I ended up eventually getting into leadership coaching. started to percolate and grow slowly over time. I was like, you know what, I really want to work on people. So prior it was always my focus was planet, climate change. It still is a very big part of where my mind and heart goes. But now I want to help heal the people that are creating the new businesses of tomorrow, because if we're healed, then we'll create better businesses, better systems for future generations.

Candice Jarrett (04:14)
That is beautiful perspective. I mean, all the way around. want to, there's so many things in there that I want to dissect. guess the first is, when you said like, I think you said lovingly firm or something like that as, as, describing, his approach and the, conscious leadership framework. Can you talk about like what that is exactly?

Alexsandra (04:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, so there's a very popular book called The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership by Jim Dettmer and gosh, I hate that I forgot the co-author's name, but there are two co-authors of this. And there's 15 commitments and I guess the seed of it is like nothing's happening to you. The world is not revolving around you, but it also is always for your benefit. So the universe, it's very spiritual in the sense where

Like what is the universe trying to create through me? And there are these different phases of what we call consciousness, meaning the lowest level is everything's happening to me. That guy cut me off and you know, it's raining on my birthday and you know, victim consciousness. And above that is everything's happening by me. Well, I have some control. create my life. I decide where, you know, how am gonna plan my birthday or...

Am I gonna react when that person is driving recklessly? And then there is, above that is through me, which is how was the universe creating through me? How am I a channel for something new in the world, which is really, that's co-creative. So the first one is like reactive. The second one is completely proactive, like I'm the creator. But then the third level of through me is I'm co-creating with the universe, which I think is absolutely beautiful.

And then the fourth level is like enlightenment. It's like, I am, right? Like I am. yeah, I think right now I'm going to be completely honest. I'm in the buy me stage. So I'm not, I have not quite through me. think I've had times or phases where I've touched through me, but that is the goal for me. So anyways, conscious leadership tries to...

Candice Jarrett (06:00)
I'm actually going to write that down, co-creating with the universe. That is so beautiful.

Alexsandra (06:19)
Take these principles and there's like 15 commitments that these folks outline that make it lot more easy to understand like committing to working in your zone of genius, committed to candor and like not withholding like what's going on for you. You have to be completely honest about things. Recognizing that your results are your commitments, which most people feel really uncomfortable with. Like, it's like, you say I'm committed to my team not listening to me? I'm like, yeah. Those are your continuous results. You have some unconscious commitments. So.

There's a lot I could talk about there, but that's a little bit.

Candice Jarrett (06:47)
Wow, that is also mind blowing. That's so fascinating. I definitely have to dive into it. So I actually think that sometimes the way that we perceive ourselves is different than the way other people perceive us. When you were going through what you thought each stage of the framework was, I was like, yes, she is definitely co-creating with the universe. Because the way you talk about how by helping people become better leaders or more confident, more effective leaders,

Alexsandra (07:01)
god.

Candice Jarrett (07:14)
that can help them with their companies, which then can help change the world. I mean, in huge ways, know, obviously make the businesses function better, create better employment, better profits, like even like just a better like ecosystem, know, like so make people happier, maybe make them more efficient and have more time with their families. so like these.

Alexsandra (07:33)
Thanks. Yeah. I'll take it.

Candice Jarrett (07:37)
Yeah, so I mean, so sometimes I think that like how we feel inside maybe is just how I was like certain I was like, she's on what was like step three. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's amazing. And I think that at least from my perspective, like watching you like come come to this, you know, from the climate set startup to here, I can see that I can see where those things are connected, you know, of wanting to make the world a better place. Just one focuses on like a very big area and the other focuses on people's hearts.

Alexsandra (07:46)
Yeah.

Candice Jarrett (08:06)
So I think it's beautiful. So I want to talk a little bit about your first session with a new client. How do you identify what their problems are? Because I know everybody's problems have got to be different, right?

Alexsandra (08:08)
Thank you, yeah.

Yeah, such a good question. So I just started my coaching business in July. So I'm still in the first few clients. I'm figuring out it's always iterative. I love the iterative process, but so far I ask a lot of questions. I mean, I have a bunch of questions. It takes like 45 minutes to get through the first call of like just questions. And I set the expectations in that way. Like this is going to be different from our subsequent coaching.

sessions because I need to diagnose, need to figure out what's going on for you. I also have them do a personality assessment, which is the Enneagram tests. Pretty scientifically backed, there's many different things, but I like the Enneagram for different reasons. And then it's like understanding what are their goals also tells you a lot about what to focus on because yeah, we can all have different issues, but if we're not necessarily focused on...

Candice Jarrett (08:58)
yeah.

Alexsandra (09:14)
like this one thing improving, but we want this other thing. Like that should be the focus of the program. So I work with clients for six months. Mostly I have a couple that I don't, but for six months, what are the goals you want to attain? Like, what do you envision for yourself the next 12 months? And then, so what does the next six months need to be? And so it's a little bit reverse engineering. I'm an engineer by background, so I kind of love the analytical, like, okay, me reverse engineer. And I'm a self-help, like.

I mean, I've been reading self-help books since I was a kid. My mama was always playing like cassette tapes in our car from like Tony Robbins. Like this has just been my whole life. I got them. I read them all and continuously always learning. So a lot of questions is the answer to your question.

Candice Jarrett (09:53)
So what are some of your favorite books?

Alexsandra (09:56)
my God. That's cause that, I mean, we're talking about, I just said decades, right? My favorite recently, my favorite recently, aside from the 15 commitments of conscious leadership, I love the Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Are you familiar with this book? So Michael Singer is a more spiritual leader. he actually has this place called the Temple of the Universe in Ocala. It's it's a yoga and meditation like sanctuary.

Candice Jarrett (10:01)
Right?

Alexsandra (10:23)
And he, you know, went away for a few years and just like meditated on his own in Ocala, Florida. And then after a few years started to write books and lectures about what he was like, uncovering. And. Michael shares that we often block wonderful creative energy flowing through us because of past experiences. And then we let those past experiences shape how we decide to show up in the future.

And then just kind of like a spiral effect. So he calls these heart blockages like if you're familiar with the chakra system I think it's actually a really beautiful simple way of describing like how energy flows through our bodies. I believe that like our bodies are temples our vessels for universal energy to constantly create But you need to keep things clear and moving and there's channels and so this Shakti energy that comes from the root of your your spine your root chakra

comes up those chakras, it usually gets blocked in the heart. Meaning, let's say my father used to look at me sternly, right, when I was goofy or something. And now if my partner looks at me sternly when I'm being goofy, like that energy goes, it just hits it. And then I shut down and I close. And Michael Singer always talks about, don't express, don't suppress, just breathe in, just release.

and he talks about this as a path of enlightenment, but he doesn't necessarily say only people who are looking for enlightenment in their life should do this. Like this is our life should be to constantly release ourselves from the shackles of some past experience because we're not living freely. And we all have all these expectations. if, you know, I like it when I walk into a room and there's nice light and when there's flowers around and it has a smell nice, it has to like, you know, like a good sexy vibe in it.

Like, yeah, that could be nice, but if that's your requirement for being happy, you're living pretty limited, right? Like you are, you're expecting everything outside of you to be the source of happiness. And that is the definition of being imprisoned, right? By your circumstances. So Michael Singer, Eckhart Tolle as well with the Power of Now is another good book. I love these books that really get to the heart of what our experience is supposed to be or could be.

and recognizing like there really is just this present moment. We need to stop analyzing everything. What do you mean by that? just keep our hearts really open. And then when there's a blockage of like, that's not letting that heart energy through, breathe in, breathe out, that a couple of times. Let it flow through you because you actually could be, instead of the thing, walking into room, needing the room and the people in it to make you feel good.

You could come in and you could bring the bag. I'm here. Let me serve. Yeah, this is better.

Candice Jarrett (13:19)
I love that. Yeah. So when somebody does have a block like that, they probably, that probably is internal, but also manifests itself into external ways. Like, do you see people, like especially people who are trying to be in leadership positions doing stuff that actively sabotages themselves because they have an internal block?

Alexsandra (13:40)
Yeah, of course, every day I see it in the mirror.

Candice Jarrett (13:43)
And what kind of things are they like? Maybe someone's sabotaging themselves and they don't know it. So maybe they could recognize, like if they recognize they have a block by understanding that they're doing something physically outside of themselves.

Alexsandra (13:57)
Yeah, I mean, that's such a beautiful question. I think the answer to that, you know, humbly, right? These are my perspectives from the little knowledge that I have as this one human being in this experience. I think it might be a comp- the answer to that is a combination of different things. Not everyone is self aware, but if you aren't, like I would welcome you start trying to invite and practice more self awareness, like how am I coming across? And of course, like you said earlier, not everybody understands like-

or perceives themselves the same way that others perceive them. And then the other aspect is friends and connections and relationships. think our relationships mirror the things that are shadows that we're not even aware of. Particularly romantic relationships. think anybody in a romantic partnership or who has ever been in one understands how painful they can be because you are so intimate with someone and you're sharing a life with them or intimacies like of the heart, right?

they're gonna show you, you're gonna show different aspects of yourself you wouldn't just share with your friend or your mother or your colleague. And it's gonna have to, it puts up that mirror, that image of like, this is actually where you're still insecure. This is actually where you're still blocking your happiness. So tuning into, again, my results, like what am I seeing in my life? Like where am I constantly stuck? And I think the best way forward is to...

approach it with curiosity. Curiosity is the best thing as opposed to judgment. I say that to myself and I'm reminding myself that curiosity is better than judgment. But yeah, I think people do it in many different ways. Whether it's, you know, our egos get in the way, especially with leaders and founders. Like there's this, I might be generalizing, but this my experience has been that the majority of

us in this society, but particularly within tech or trying to create a startup, you're wanting to prove yourself. A lot of our ambition comes from wanting to prove ourselves or like that or even our idea. Let's say like our ego is attached to us, but like I want to prove to the world that my idea, that this idea is right. And that doesn't come from the place of the deepest strength, right? It comes from insecurity. So

That's even something else. Like if you're finding yourself struggling because you want people to believe you or you want to prove yourself, like take a step back. Like what am I really trying to accomplish here? And I think that's the iterative process of checking in with yourself and others.

Candice Jarrett (16:32)
Did you ever read the mom test? So the mom test is like, it's called the mom test, but it's a business book about like people who they exactly what you just described. They want to believe that their startup idea is like the best thing. So when they go out and they ask people questions about it, they ask people questions in a leading way that will confirm their bias. So.

Alexsandra (16:34)
No, no, that's just one.

Candice Jarrett (16:56)
The mom test is all about like asking scary questions, asking questions that you don't want to hear the answer to that is going to tell you your idea is bad because you want to hear your idea is bad because you don't want to hear your idea is good because of what you just said. It's ego. I love the way you talked about it because it didn't say this in the book, but it's so true that it's not ego for yourself. It's ego for your for your for your dream, essentially, because you're offering up on a planet. I believe in this thing. Please believe in it, So

Alexsandra (16:57)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Candice Jarrett (17:23)
Yeah, think that's so fascinating. Yeah, I would recommend that book to you.

Alexsandra (17:24)
And there's.

Yeah, and there's some identity, think, I think we identify with our ideas too. and so people get really precious. and you know, I think that that's really hard too, cause if you're trying to bring a team on to work on something, your ideas should not be so precious. And this is all like a really strange balance, right? Because you gotta be like really confident in what you're doing in order to start a company.

Candice Jarrett (17:52)
Yeah.

Alexsandra (17:55)
You are risking time, you are risking capital, you are risking reputation, all for this game. And honestly, even if it fails, you'll be fine. Like you will be better. You will have grown. So you're not really at a loss, but it is a big risk that requires a lot of confidence. So I think it makes sense that you want it to be right, but at the same time recognize that it could just be improved by a lot of iteration and some pivoting, right?

Candice Jarrett (18:19)
Yeah, yeah, I think that the whole thing about, you know, like, kind of checking your ego at the door and asking those questions is to help make your idea bulletproof. So it's for you to say, like, okay, I don't need someone to just pat me on the back and say, you did a good job, but actually, like, like, go ahead and put me in the line of fire and just drill down this idea so that I can be stronger, like understanding how it can actually help people.

Alexsandra (18:28)
mm-hmm.

And that 100%. And so that is where safe spaces to do that are super important and yet super rare. Like, do we have safe spaces where I can say, I'm going to make myself really vulnerable. I'm going to expose a potentially stupid idiotic idea, help me make it better by challenging it in a way that's very loving and caring, right? Like it is with the benefit for me improving.

destroy it, right? That is like super, super rare, right? Because I think most people are showing up online with facades, right? We have these masks, these portrayers, this image we need to share with others so that they think that we're super credible, which, you know, we're flawed. We're all flawed, right? We're using AI to make us look flawless in our, you know, image and stuff like which I don't. It's like you can see my wrinkles and my gray hairs. It's like, But

Candice Jarrett (19:36)
you

Alexsandra (19:40)
That's why I love coaching is because a lot of the founders I work with, entrepreneurs, they don't have that safe space because they don't want to do it with their team because the team's relying on them. And I get that. That's kind of like, parents should not rely on their children for emotional support. They should be the parent, right? Because if you're relying on your child for emotional support, you're essentially emotionally abandoning them because there's no room for them. Same thing with a leader in their team. So I get not wanting to be vulnerable in that way.

But you're also as a founder, not going to be vulnerable with your investors because you want them to have complete confidence in what you're doing and you want to safe, but you still need that safe space of like poking holes in the idea or in your leadership approach, in your strategy, in your organizational approach so that you can figure it out. But if you can't do that in a safe space, well, how are you ever going to figure it out? How are you going to know where your weaknesses are, your, you need to improve. And so that's where coaching can be really helpful resource. You find someone you connect with.

that has your complete best interest and has the capability and passion and desire to help you. think it can be incredible. And that's how coaching has served me and I serve my clients.

Candice Jarrett (20:47)
That is, I think, a thousand percent true and also incredibly needed for a lot of people who are, especially in industries that there's a lot of high stress, you know, not just tech startups. mean, there's obviously a lot of high stress that, but even like small business owners, you know, because they might not, not want to like vent or rely on their employees, you know, cause they obviously they want to be seen as the leader, but they probably need a space to be able to hash things out.

I mean, in a very open, vulnerable way. think it's, I think it's amazing. so I recently heard a young, startup founder, his first company talk about how he was incredibly stressed about the idea of taking a break. That, he worried that if he took a break, that it was like letting, letting his team down, letting his business down. And my heart got sunk when I heard it, cause it's like, it's so difficult, but I think a lot of people have that.

Alexsandra (21:15)
Exactly.

Yeah.

Candice Jarrett (21:43)
pressure, right? So like, what would you say to somebody like that? Like, what would you what would you tell him?

Alexsandra (21:48)
I'm thinking through that because I essentially I've done I know what not to do. Don't ignore it to the point where you just you because you will hit the wall and you will have the panic attack or you will have some other physiological manifestation of your limits as a human being to be in that situation and it can either break you temporarily or break you permanently you know who knows.

Candice Jarrett (21:55)
Thank

Alexsandra (22:15)
Be very intentional, be very proactive. This is when I, like I have to take vacation every six months, a week. I have to, it's for the benefit of the company and so should everybody else, right? Whatever that, I'm not saying that's the number, so please anybody listening, don't say that, that's what she suggests. I don't know, but you need to figure out and commit ahead of time. It's almost like when you plan your life and your routines. For me, I have an absolute commitment and I'm not.

Great about it, every day I need to meditate. So I do it three days a week, right? But the point is I have a goal, right? I need to make sure that I'm physically active, because I know that I want to be strong and I want to live a high quality life, have longevity, like I eat well, like I do that. So plan in your life, time off and give yourself permission. And honestly, if anybody's gonna give you smack about it, like you can disregard their opinion.

Because it's not, it's just not an intelligent way to live anymore. Like we know that we are not infinite machines that can run. There's no such thing as a perpetual motion machine really, right? So why should we be? We have to rest. I'll tell you, I did this multiple times where I ignored it and I tried to hero. I was so young, so naive. I was like, I just keep sacrificing for the business. And then what happened? I had a panic attack. After one, like we were having like an

offsite somewhere with some team members and there was a tension that happened with me and one of my co-founders and they were yelling at me and I couldn't handle it and I was like, that's it, I have to go. I'm off for a week and a half and I just dropped everything. So I'm going home to Miami, I'm off for a week and a half and then my co-founder was like, how could you just abandon us like that? And I'm like, I get it, but also it wasn't such a big deal. I could definitely afford the week and a half off, but it's better to be pre-planned and say, okay, I was gonna be gone this week and yeah.

Candice Jarrett (24:09)
Right. I like how you said that pre-plan it because you will have to take a break eventually. So you might as well control when that happens as opposed to something like that happening. And then, you know, then you don't have control over it. So you had kind of touched on a bunch of things before about like the ego. And I'm just wondering, like, do you have a list of things that you feel are traits that make an effective leader that people can then work on those things in themselves?

Alexsandra (24:21)
Exactly.

That's a beautiful question, Candice.

I have to say there's only one thing that's resonating in my mind and I think that is to put your ego aside and to be in service of something greater than yourself. We're talking about what's the definition of a good leader, right? The interests of the mission that you have and the team has to come first. So for example, my co-founder, Paul,

of Nori was our founding CEO and was our CEO for six years or five years, a long time. And then he recognized like, he's taken it as far, the baton as far as he could. And like two years ago, a year ago, so ago, man, time is weird. He decided I'm going to step down. I'm going to find another CEO, brought on Matt Trudeau to run Nori and he was incredible.

very professional, like, but he wasn't the founder type, right? He wasn't like, create the beginning things, but he could bring things together and, to scale and operationalize. And I thought that was really beautiful. Like I was very, very proud and I still am very proud of Paul. We've become very good friends. and you know, I don't think he was always like that. And I don't think he'd be upset that I said that like,

We weren't always like that, right? We had a lot of ego in the beginning and Paul had to like prove that it was his way or the highway or like his idea. And like, he was going to be the one to lead us there. But eventually he grew and he matured and he recognized like, this is it. Like I've done my part and now someone else needs to come in with different qualifications, different set of experiences. It's for the benefit of the team and it's a benefit for the company to continue going. And then eventually I had to do that with someone else to come in and take over my department. And I think that's.

think that's the healthy way of going forward is you always have to be like, I'm in this, I'm interested, but it's not about me. And it's not about my idea. It's about the mission and the team.

Candice Jarrett (26:30)
Yeah, I totally agree with that. from the perspective of a founder, I think that, the only time where not the only time, but a time where it's actually, think important to be selfish is like when you're an employee on a team, you know, because, I feel like sometimes, you know, People can kind of take advantage of you and say, you need to do this for the good of the team. Like work these extra 40 hours, but I'm not going to pay you. Like, yeah. So I think it's like, there needs to be.

Alexsandra (26:49)
Yeah.

Agreed. Agreed.

Candice Jarrett (26:58)
like some barriers. you talked about this in your presentation. I love that. We got to go into it. Barriers where you set a boundary for something with your work. But just to cop off your point, from a founder perspective, I do think that what you said is true. The bravest thing that you can do, the most courageous thing is sometimes recognize that you're not the best person to lead your company forward and to say, you know what, I've taken it to this point.

Alexsandra (27:03)
Yeah, yeah.

Candice Jarrett (27:24)
It takes a very specific type of person to be a tech startup founder. It takes someone who is like just like has so much potential energy, you know, and, and really, really believes. love the way that you said earlier too. Gosh, you said so many great things. I'm just like trying to like keep them off. That, you know, that an effective leader isn't just somebody who's charismatic. Like it can be somebody who's introverted. You can have different personality types and still be a great leader.

Alexsandra (27:29)
huh.

Yeah.

You

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Candice Jarrett (27:51)
And I think that, you know, even despite different personality types, like tech founders really do have that in common, the potential energy to just birth an idea and then just be relentless about trying to make it come alive. So, but so I guess for a tech founder perspective, yes, you know, no barriers, you like,

Sacrifice your ego on the altar of making your business like successful because that is your dream You want to make it born but for the people who depend on you who are your employees? They need some type of boundaries and also I think he was a tech Well, you know a startup founder needs some boundaries also like never any boundaries Let's jump in

Alexsandra (28:32)
Everybody needs boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody needs boundaries. I think it's just more like leadership. Just to clarify on that point is what makes a truly great leader good from just like a good leader or manager. And I think it's that you, that your ego is not tied up in, in the success of the like, like it's not about you, the, business.

the team come first, right? The mission comes first and it's not, okay, the A la show, she's gonna, you know, this is, she's the boss because she's the boss on what she says goes, right? You should be inviting challenges and iterations and collaborations. then, but so boundaries. Man, you know what's really funny? It's probably a year and a half ago, I would not be able to even define a boundary.

Candice Jarrett (28:54)
Yes.

Alexsandra (29:19)
I don't, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have like this weird history of like, had to, don't know, cause it was maybe two, it was two years ago. Two years ago, I had this like aha moment. I was on a yoga retreat with one of my best friends. It was planned. I had learned by this point. It was like a week long retreat. And it's just taking some time apart from most people I knew except for her. And it like, shoot, I don't have any boundaries. Why don't I have any boundaries?

Maybe because when I expressed boundaries as a kid, they were ignored or invalidated. And it was like all about what my parents wanted or my other people, like what pleased them mattered and not, not even my needs. Right. So was gaslit a lot. And I say this, I have an amazing, amazing relationship with my family. Like I'm good, but you know, and I had a conversation with my mom about this once.

recently I told her like yeah all these things that Happened as a kid like screwed me up in these ways and I've had to work really hard to come over and she's like I'm sorry and it was like really nice because I'm gonna make mistakes with my kids too, so anyways boundaries

I think it's really personal to figure out what a boundary is. And it was very difficult for me to determine what's a boundary versus an ultimatum. people can be very like, boundaries are almost gray in the sense that it's not just black and white. Like, it's not like, here's the line. It's definitive binary. because at some point it gets binary. Now you're like in black and that's, that's the ultimatum. It's like, if you go past this hard, no, like done versus.

If you continue to speak in a meeting, if you continue to speak to me in a braised voice or call me names, I will leave. That's a boundary. Right? And ultimatum is if you speak to me in that way, I'm quitting. Right? That gives no room for someone to learn. And that's a big piece. think if I can go here, because this is something that I was talking about with my partner recently, when we're not communicating,

our needs and our boundaries, it's at the disservice of all of society. All of them. Because that person sitting across from me didn't learn, wasn't called out on their bad behavior. And I think so much of our society now, or at least my generation, is super avoidant of conflict. So I'm like, it's really easy. Ghost. I ghost you. You did that, you upset me, I'm gone. As opposed to, you did that, I didn't like that. I'm gonna communicate that effectively to you.

Candice Jarrett (31:31)
Mm-hmm.

Alexsandra (31:55)
what happened, why didn't like it. And then you get to, with that knowledge, decide, are you going to repeat that offense or repeat that behavior or not? But so much, we are going silent and it's not helping us to be clearer with ourselves about what boundaries are. And it's not helping others to learn how to receive boundaries and respect them.

Candice Jarrett (32:17)
So if somebody isn't naturally a good communicator, do you think that there are things that they could do to help enhance that skill?

Alexsandra (32:24)
yeah, that's a really, really, really good point.

So I think I'm a good communicator, but I don't think I knew how to communicate or was even aware of what my needs or boundaries were. So it might not, it might be that you're a bad communicator and can't communicate boundaries, but it also might be that you're a good communicator, but you are like ignorant on what they are or how to communicate them effectively. Yeah, that's a skill that could be learned. You know, one book that I read and did a training on like eight years ago was Crucial Conversations.

And also Radical Candor is a beautiful book too. Radical Candor I love is really easy to explain, but there's like a quadrant and it's like, I care about what you're, do I care about you or do I not? And am I clear or am I ambiguous? Radical candor is when I'm clear and I care about you. So I'm going to share something with you for your benefit with clarity. And then there's all these different characterizations of the other quadrants where you don't want to be.

And then Crucial Conversations is another wonderful book. And one of the key aspects there is always state what your intention is. So, hey, Candice, look, really great to chat with you today. Look, I want to share with you something because I really like our relationship. I think it's we've been really collaborative and creative together. Yesterday in the coffee room, when you said that thing to me, I didn't like it. It made me feel not respected because I put a lot of time into this project. Right. I stated.

Candice Jarrett (33:51)
No!

Alexsandra (33:52)
No, no, no, no, but that's the point. Candice is like, we need to not feel it's both part. Like, I think we need to feel really safe back to the safe spaces that we were talking about earlier. We need to feel really safe and grounded in ourselves to give radical candor loving feedback clear and to receive it. Right.

Candice Jarrett (33:54)
Good. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I agree. Because if you don't tell the person in the coffee room that that made you feel that way, they may not even know. Most of the things I think that people do are just kind of unintentional. So I think that if you do take that step to say, that really hurt me, then it's

Alexsandra (34:24)
I don't know.

Mm-hmm.

Candice Jarrett (34:42)
it helps because like my immediate reaction, like it was a, it was a fictional scenario, but my immediate reaction was like, wanted to hug you. Like, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it. Yeah. So I think, I think most people just, you know, most people never like wouldn't want to hurt somebody intentionally. So I think that by being able to communicate that you're right, because if you don't say anything, it could just keep going over and over again. And then it builds a climate, like a, even a, even a corporate culture of

Alexsandra (34:46)
so sorry! I'm so sorry! Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Candice Jarrett (35:11)
Like this is okay when, you know, it may not be okay with everybody.

Alexsandra (35:15)
Exactly, the behavior goes on, the offense gets repeated in many other ways. It might affect other people too. That relationship never gets healed or improved. And then, and there's no, and it destroys trust because essentially by withholding something like that, you are building resentment and you are not giving that other person the benefit of the doubt for being a wonderful human being who could show up and apologize for something that was unintentional.

Candice Jarrett (35:43)
Mm-hmm.

Alexsandra (35:45)
And you've just assumed the worst in them. We need to assume best. We are, for the most part, really capable, loving, know everybody, not even for the most part, everybody on this planet, I think is here to, you know, feel love, be loved, be connected, find joy, be creative, and enjoy this this ride on this planet. this is crazy. I thought this is crazy where we are like

We don't even know if we know that there's millions and billions of stars out there and galaxies and the universe is expanding or not. We don't even know how that started. Is there life out there? Like, we don't know any of that, but it's so possible and it's a gift to be here. trust that we all want to have a good life and can handle some fair, honest communication. It's for our benefit or else we stop growing.

Candice Jarrett (36:37)
beautifully said. It just reminds me of the co-creating with the universe thing that you brought up earlier. I mean, you've just had so much beautiful insight this whole conversation. I would love to bring you on the show again and have another one because I feel like we've only just scratched the surface. Yeah, so, but if somebody wants to reach out to you at Calm and Chaos, like what's the best way for them to contact you?

Alexsandra (36:41)
Mm.

Sure.

We could do it again.

Yes.

Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you for asking. You can go to my LinkedIn. it's and I think you're going to share this on LinkedIn. So Alessandra Guerra, Guerra. And you can also go to my website, Calming Chaos with Ale, Ale, or people say ale, but it's Ale is a short Hispanic nickname for Ale, Alessandra. So, Calming Chaos with Ale.com.

And I have some contact info there. I have my Instagram there as well. I'm pretty active on my Instagram my ex So LinkedIn Instagram website. Yeah

Candice Jarrett (37:37)
Perfect. Also wonderful. So thank you so much again for being here today. Really appreciate you. Looking forward to having you back.

Alexsandra (37:41)
Thank you.

Yeah, I loved it. Have a great weekend and happy Thanksgiving. Ciao.

Candice Jarrett (37:47)
Happy Thanksgiving. Bye.